General Brian Peddle at the International Conference of Leaders

This week, leaders of The Salvation Army’s 58 territories and commands have gathered in Vancouver for the International Conference of Leaders (ICL). This is the first in-person gathering of leaders since 2017, and the first under the leadership of General Brian Peddle.

In this episode, General Peddle gives us a behind the scenes look at the ICL—what’s on the agenda, how decisions are made and how Salvationists can stay informed about the proceedings.

Transcript

Kristin Ostensen 

This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen.

This week, leaders of The Salvation Army’s 58 territories and commands have gathered in Vancouver for the International Conference of Leaders. This is the first in-person gathering of leaders since 2017, and the first under the leadership of General Brian Peddle.

In this episode of the Salvationist podcast, General Peddle gives us a behind the scenes look at the ICL—what’s on the agenda, how decisions are made and how Salvationists can stay informed about the proceedings.

Thanks so much for making time to chat with me. I know you have a very busy schedule.

General Brian Peddle  

Sure. No worries.

Kristin Ostensen 

I'm wondering if you can tell us first off, why is it important for our international leaders to be gathering right now for an ICL?

General Brian Peddle  

I think it's an accepted provision that every General during his or her term has an opportunity to engage directly with the international leaders representing 58 territories and commands. I would want the Army world to know that my leadership style is consultative, and we are exchanging back and forth on key items, month by month, with our international leaders. But the privilege and opportunity that comes to have leaders in the room is of consequence when it comes to drilling down significantly on the agenda items, to be able to enjoy the mutuality of concern as we are together—much easier to do than exchanging ideas through shared space or collaborative tools or Teams or anything of that nature. The dynamic in the room is not to be created in any other forum. So, the privilege that I have then is access to, not just the individuals who are leading The Salvation Army, but their deep thoughts on what is important to The Salvation Army and understanding that they represent literally 133 countries of the world. So, people come to an ICL encouraged to bring their personal views, as they have evolved as a Salvation Army officer. They're coming to bring representation geographically, which means we get to delve into, I was going to say, the social nuances of Europe or the deep east of Africa, or the very southern regions of South America. So, we have all of that representation in the room. And then we ask very, very clearly, we ask that in the interest of mutuality, that we leave our personal opinions, our geographical representation opinions, and we get to a place where we're engaged in a mutual concern for the international Salvation Army, our global family, our global mission. And there are times as we are together when you actually have to surrender what you think for the interests of the greater good for the international Salvation Army. I just love watching our leaders sort that out. Yeah. So, you know, for me, it's about having this opportunity, having this privilege. For this particular ICL, is that we've lost some opportunity due to the difficulty of getting everybody here. So, we have visa issues. So, this is probably historical in that we are running a very hybrid Conference of Leaders. And I am so thankful today for technology that enables me to be able to engage all of our leaders, some from where they're sitting today in their living rooms at very strange hours of the morning, and most who are here in the room. So, I'm walking around the tables and waving, I just said hello to Colonel Alexander Kharkov, from Russia. 

Kristin Ostensen

Oh, wow. 

General Brian Peddle

And he would not be able to be here anyway. But through Teams, right, he is able to be there. And I just have this wonderful reality today. And there might be criticism: why do you need to come to a place and bring everybody and the carbon footprint and all of that, and why are you there and you don't have everybody there? I think we can work our way through all of these questions and say the importance of the agenda has enabled us both to gather, but it also has enabled us to embrace a hybrid model because visas have been a problem. And we are overcoming all the obstacles so that we can have genuine conversation in the room. And it's amazing what's happening here in Vancouver today.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, that is amazing.

General Brian Peddle  

Everybody knows, I think, or would understand that in, you know, May of next year there will be another High Council to elect a General who will be the 22nd General of The Salvation Army. The critical mass that will make that possible—many, most are in this room. And the importance of coming together is, again, the sense in which we know each other and that when we come to High Council, we're not meeting people for the first time. We know each other, there is a common awareness of who we are and what we think and how we relate within the context of this important agenda, which sets the stage, I think, for the sole purpose of a High Council which is to elect a new General. So, this ICL and where it is positioned in the calendar has other agenda benefits that might not normally be the case if the ICL was happening in the first year of a General’s term, which got canceled because of COVID. So, there are several spinoffs to this particular conference that are quite valuable to the Army, whether it's visible to most people or not.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that does make a lot of sense, and it's not something we would necessarily think of, as you say.

General Brian Peddle  

No, but that certainly would be a part of my responsibility to ensure that leaders who will elect the next General, when they come together, they're not strangers. And, you know, 65% to 70% of our delegates weren't there when I was elected. So, there is a natural changeover of who is in the room, and it's important for Salvationists, I think, to have confidence that we are doing our best to prepare for a significant event that's coming in May of next year.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, that makes sense. So, thinking about this particular ICL, what are some of the pressing agenda topics this time around?

General Brian Peddle  

We've chosen a rather ambitious theme. And that theme is contextualized in our agreement that we serve a “limitless God.” And our subtext for that is “shaping the vision and building the future,” which is the umbrella under which we are meeting. I think if I were to add to that, I would be saying that we are trying to bring focus to keeping the main thing, the main thing. What is vitally important for The Salvation Army in the time in which we are living, and leading the mission? And under that particular umbrella, we have decided with mutual input and reasoning and building on agendas that have come towards this point in time—in other words, building out of our historical context of our journey—we've chosen to talk about three specific areas. One of those is our identity. And that has something to do with the external view of who we are, our image in the world. But I think even more importantly, who Salvationists believe we are and clarifying our identity—my words—to be The Salvation Army, but to be an army of salvation, and in our understanding of identity, positioning ourselves to be fit for purpose, with the awareness that the gospel message isn't popular or well received by everyone. So, how do we navigate our way through a world that isn't embracing a gospel God, good-news message, or a world that isn't primarily being exposed to such a message? How do we be an army of salvation in a time when some of the messaging associated with salvation is viewed as not very tolerant, not very popular, perhaps even for some the wrong side of history, as we sometimes say? So, we have a keen understanding here at this conference that, as leaders, we have to lead through a spiritual dry time that exists in the world, to a place where the church is faithful, as it has been in difficult times in years past, that we do not compromise our responsibility to be salt and light in the world. And that means coming back to the mission of God to the world, and that's to redeem the world. And that's very much, so that's about our identity and finding our place in all of that. 

The other thing is that we're going to spend the whole day talking about our people because our people are the greatest gift and resource that God has given to us. And that's talking about our officer contingency. It’s talking about how we attract recruits into the training college to be cadets. And it's talking about our soldiery. It's talking about our employees. It's talking about the greatest resource that we have, which is those who are the Army, and asking ourselves the question: are we being the stewards of that resource as we should be? In other words, are we—I'm just blessed as the General because I'm leading the largest Salvation Army that's ever existed. Our membership has grown to a point where this is the largest Army ever. And that means that we have a responsibility to make that Army stronger—not numerically, but in its in its strength of purpose and conviction, in our deployment of people, in the equity that we provide for training. When you look at some parts of the world versus other parts of the world, the equity of leadership for both men and women, equality, not just because it's the buzzword, but because we are all created equal in God's image. And we have to pursue that. So, a whole day talking about our greatest resource, our most precious gift, which is our people. How do we mobilize 1.3, 1. 4 million members, employees and volunteers to help us with our identity, our external and internal identity? What are people needing from The Salvation Army? And so, we're going to talk about that for a whole day. And that's going to be exciting. I'm really, really hoping that that will be a productive day. 

And then we're going to spend another day on helping us to get to a good space with regard to the competing priorities. Are there global priorities that should resonate in every territory and command? Are there absolutely undeniably priorities that are not up for grabs, or you can put this on the backburner, or you can deal with this in two years time? What are the things that are important today, right now, that would give us a good sense that we're mobilized together as one Army to deal with those priorities? This group can and will get us to a place where we talk about the issues that affect us all, with a keen knowledge that in Zambia, some of those other priorities for Zambia are not the same priorities as there might be in Canada. But apart from what is unique to Zambia and Canada, what are the things that we share together in our responsibility, to give our full attention to? So, we'll spend a fair bit of time. And that's about getting the things to the surface, the things that need to be on the front burner, to use that analogy. And then on another day, we're going to talk about many things that are not on the front burner, that are just simmering away in the background. And we'll report on those. We'll take snapshots of those, and they will be carried over and we'll treat them with respect as we move forward. But for our days, it's about identity, it's about people, and it's about priorities, and we're giving full attention to those three areas.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, that sounds good. And during these meetings, how do decisions get made? What's the process?

General Brian Peddle  

It's not a complicated process. I, again, I want to impress upon anybody who is interested that our room is a room of mutuality around the greater good. We spent last evening in a concert of prayer, where we challenged each other to literally lay down whatever agendas we might have individually so that we could not have the crossed wires, if you like, or the conflict. This is a conference where we can create an atmosphere of speaking clearly, but listening intently. And we have a beautiful capacity to self correct. So, in reality, we don't get to positions of out-and-out conflict. We do get to positions of challenging individual convictions. But in the end, this is about dialogue that brings us to a place where we can agree together. So, recommendations are certainly suitable to arise throughout the day. And I would look for that, I'm asking for that as the General of The Salvation Army. Some of those recommendations can be agreed upon within the room. But this year, because I'm conscious of the hybrid aspect of our conference, we're just going to be very careful how final we are in any recommendation that comes so that we can pay careful tribute to everybody, whether they're in the room or they're online. But usually, we can bring recommendations forward, and we can, because we're a mass of leaders, we can agree to those recommendations and set forth an action plan. The other failsafe that we have is that we can recommend any recommendation, if I'm uncomfortable with the clarity or the impact of a recommendation, I can take it back to IHQ, to the General’s Council, where further dialogue and further development of that recommendation can be implemented. So that's my failsafe. At the end of the day, it's not about the General deciding; it's about the General taking good advice. It’s about the General being directed and sharpened. This is not a solo act. It is the leaders of The Salvation Army. Yes, at the end of the day, I'm responsible, but I have the benefit of everybody that's involved in this conference to not only bring forward recommendations, but to action those in such a way. So, one of the things I would be looking for, for any recommendation that comes into play is what I refer to as a roadmap of who's responsible to implement, when are we going to do this, is it a priority, and we got accountability at the end. I wouldn't want to say to the Salvation Army world that we're going to do this, and not give them a means by which they could understand how in the world is The Salvation Army going to do that. And so, we will put framework and structure around it with accountability, which should give comfort to any Salvationists interested in any of the items that we've talked about.

Kristin Ostensen 

Well, that leads well into my next question, which is, even though meetings are closed door, what can Salvationists expect to hear about the outcomes and the recommendations of this ICL?

General Brian Peddle  

OK, so I'm very intent—this will probably be the most transparent international leaders conference that I'm aware of. And we're dealing with that from a number of perspectives. I am asking that at the end of every day, there's an international news bulletin that will be available. We are also posting on our usual sites, the General’s sites, the General’s Facebook page. We're going to sit with some delegates, we’re going to interview them and get their insights and share that out. So, I think Salvationists, if they want to, and I encourage them to do that, is just tune in and watch the website, watch my social media feeds, and watch for these INBs that are coming out. And some of that's already been released. So, it would give Salvationists an opportunity. And the reason for that is not just to inform everybody. The reason for that is to enlist the prayers of Salvationists around the world, to join us in this journey of reflection because some of the subject material is difficult. So, stay tuned. And at the end of conference, there will be further INBs and further reflections on what we've accomplished. And I would challenge Salvationists to hold us accountable for what we say we can and should do.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, you've talked a little bit about having a roadmap and some accountability after the ICL. So, can you tell us a bit about what happens next and what the follow up is? Sort of longer term.

General Brian Peddle  

The follow up would be, well, obviously, you know for the whole conference, there would be mutual accountability from the General to every delegate that's here. So, when we get back to our respective corners of the world, we'll exchange further, more articulated, summarized roadmap of what we've agreed, how we're going to accomplish that, and what resources are going to be required to create, for instance, a leadership equity that says that a cadet trained in one part of the world is equal to a cadet trained in another part of the world. What does it look like to have our officers equally tooled up for future challenges? What does it mean for Salvationists to have opportunities to know more about who we are as a Salvation Army? Seminars and workshops and symposia and all of those things. We want to equally distribute those kinds of tooling up so that we can be fit for purpose in the present day in which we're living. We just held a symposium on human sexuality. We were able to gather over 100 people from every territory and command in the world. I want to see more of that. I want to see more of our Salvation Army people being a part of our mission. And that would be a wonderful reality. So, we will not drop any balls, we will watch carefully, the things that we say are important. And we will not lose sight of an action plan, a timeline and a deliverance point, being mindful that I need to do in the next nine months is prepare a path for a new leader. And therefore, I need to be careful in all these agenda items to position them so that they're enabling for the next General, and not a millstone around their neck. So, it's about creating, forging a path to the future that makes sense for handover, and makes sense because together leaders own these things. That's important.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And as we're at sort of the beginning of the ICL journey this time around, can you talk about how you've prepared your heart and mind for these days? What have you been praying about?

General Brian Peddle  

I have to admit I have been praying more than anything else that everybody would be here. And that, you know, there's a personal reflection of grief around that, which I continue to help myself with, if you like. And I'm being very honest when I say that we're in this fragmented world, we’re in this world where we're maybe connected by technology, but we're struggling to connect with each other in the freedom of movement and visas. We chose to come to Canada on the West Coast because, at the time when we chose that, it appeared to be accessible. COVID wasn't in the picture. COVID is in the picture, and in many parts of the world, we've moved on. But still, there are realities of coming to Canada that we wouldn't have expected at that time. So, I have to admit to that as much as I've prayed about the agenda, I've prayed that we could be here together. Now I find myself praying in the morning here: Lord, let the technology work so that I can walk up to a screen and wave at, you know, Colonel Kharkov in Russia, and I can go looking for my TCs from Philippines who haven't made it, I can go to Brazil and find the Strasses, who are not here. And at least we can talk to each other and say, Welcome to this incredible conference of leaders that we’re engaged in. And besides that, I've been praying very hard that we would be able to stay on point. There are so many peripheral, distracting issues, that if we took up five days to deal with them, we wouldn't make us any more fit for purpose at the end. So, it's about staying focused on the things that are going to help us as an international movement to best serve in the world in which we are placed at this time. We will look at this very differently in 10 years time. But for right now, for the days in which we are living, how is this Salvation Army going to be faithful to its calling today? And I've been praying, Lord, help us keep the focus and not get distracted by many, many other things that, sure, we need to pay attention to. But they probably won’t chart our course very well, as a singular item. We need to stay focused on our identity, on our people, and our priorities. So, yeah, I admit that I wake in the wee hours the morning and I confess to Lord, help me go back to sleep, and help me to leave this with you. Because there are a lot of things that could come against us. And we're praying, God prepare the waiting for us to do the best that we can, because this is a huge investment, to have people in Vancouver like this. Huge carbon footprint. And we don't want to do that without being cognizant of the fact that if we can walk away with the dividends that are spiritual, that are going to position us for the future, then we will pay the cost. And we will make sure that we get to a place where we've honoured God in all that we've done together. And that's the main thing. So, that's my prayer, that we can just walk away from here having accomplished the task that is ours, given to us by virtue of leadership responsibility, on behalf of The Salvation Army, on behalf of Salvationists who believe in us, and on behalf of an incredible catchment of people who we serve. That's my prayer, is that we can do all of that, which is superhero stuff and everything else. But, you know, we want to serve the world in which we live.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, absolutely. We're all praying alongside you as well, I'm sure, around the world. 

General Brian Peddle  

Ah well, thank you. Thank you.

Kristin Ostensen

Well, thank you so much for giving us that sort of window into what's happening this week. It's really fascinating. 

General Brian Peddle  

Sure. Thank you, Kristin. 

Kristin Ostensen 

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. For more episodes, visit Salvationist.ca/podcast. And to stay up to date on all things related to the ICL, visit sar.my/2022ICL